Upgrade or side step from a DC5?

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dotty

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Hi guys,

If you are on any other Type R forums you will probably know of me, I am a moderator on both the TRO forum and DC5 forum.

I have had a number of Type R's mostly EP3 (incl JDM) and also a couple of DC5's - my current car is a DC5, with a nice spec list - currently running 257bhp (216 atw) and has some tasty mods, FEELS header, Mugen exhaust, Arc intake, Rays wheels, Kpro, RBC etc.

The car is Feb 2004 DC5, one of the last ones made in pre facelift guise (the better looking one). It was owned by another enthusiast before me who had it for 4 years, it was brought in to the UK with only 5k on the clock, has full Jap history and TGM history.. wait I am writing a for sale ad here?!

I have owned the car over a year, it has caused me no issues, I have changed the clutch, and serviced it at TGM.

Here is my dilemma, I have been getting itchy feet to change the car again, I have always appreciated an FD2, but I think coming from my DC5 in it;s current state of tune in to a more or less stock FD2 will be a bit of a backwards step. I have also been chewing the fat over an Evo X (330).

I have had an Evo before, great car but so costly to run, but as my DC5 is a 'toy' I can afford to run something special.

I know there are a few owners on here who have owned DC5's in the past, I am interested in hearing your thoughts. :-o

TGM is literally 15 minutes drive from my house, so I know getting another Honda would be the wise choice as far as maintenance is concerned.

Here is my current car for those interested.

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Very nice DC5 indeed.

Like you know I have made a few comments over on TRO... Having never owned an Evo what are the running costs like eg rough miles to a tank. People mention getting about 300 miles to the K20 but recently I have only been getting 250 to a tank on my FD2.
 
Well as you know I had my DC5 for over 5 years and it was modded pretty similar to yours, albeit with more handling mods (modified sub-frame for more castor etc.) The FD2 handles better out of the box, the chassis is much better and it doesn't suffer the compromised rear suspension of the DC5 that you will never get away from without having a race car built.

However, with mine standard at the moment, it definitely lacks the drama and feedback I got from my DC5 (never had a standard one so difficult to compare like with like). It feels nippy in a way the DC5 never did, but it doesn't have the grunt - no surprise, it's still running a cat and stock breathing! I think the nippiness is the shorter first three gears.

It does feel a bit like you need to be going proper fast to get feedback from the handling, it's not dead or anything (far from it, it's finally eliminated the dead-spot in the steering when dead-ahead that so many Hondas have suffered and the suspension is far stiffer than anything else I've experienced out of the factory), but in terms of "how much grip have I got?" the answer is usually "loads, but you can't really feel it until you're approaching the limit". I felt I had a much better gauge on my DC5's progression towards the limit, albeit I suspect it was a lower limit than the FD2 (I've followed stock-suspension FD2s round the track in my DC5 and they were certainly at least as good as my well-modified DC5!)

Then there's the looks - not bad, but the DC5 is a significantly better-looking car in my opinion (albeit there are a lot more on the road, so it loses out on rarity). If I was buying a "special" car (i.e. low-mileage, doesn't have to be used in snow or carry four people etc.), it wouldn't be this one as you can afford higher running costs, hence why I have my RX-7 - much more of an event, albeit rather less practical! I bought the FD2 because it was the only logical choice - I do quite a few miles, need to drive in all weathers (i.e. RWD is out) and very occasionally fit people in the back. I want reliability, rarity and the best car I can afford that meets all my criteria and the FD2 is the only car that does that (would you really want a rapidly-depreciating Ford or half-its-time-at-the-dealer Renault?)

An Evo would be the other logical choice for me, but not only are the running costs rather silly when you do 12k+ miles a year, having had one stolen at gunpoint I shall probably never have another. As such I haven't driven an Evo X and whilst in principle I like them, reviews would suggest the boxy ones are the ones to have, so an IX MR is probably the best bet - a mate has one and loves it, having had a couple of Evos previously (as well as a DC5 and an FD2!) The Evo will be immensely quicker than any Honda even with mild breathing mods, because you can't summon all that torque and grip from an N/A FWD car! You'll pay for it with the running costs though...

I'm enjoying the FD2 as a "new" car at the moment - it's standard, very good condition and a nice place to be. I will probably mod it at some point as I want my mid-range torque back and the seats are too high, but after the noisy rattly DC5 (the price of better exhaust manifolds!), it's a nice change at the moment.
 
I think thats well said....

Running costs of an Evo X or other Evo's you see people saying the costs are stupidly high.... If you have to think about running costs then an Evo is not for you but how much is it??

So 55 ltr tank so lets say normal day to day driving. So driving 40-50 mph a couple quick launches when you get bored etc (you know what I mean) how many miles do you roughly get from the car. Is it going to be around 300-250 or the 200 mark. Servicing costs dont look too scary. Ive seen a website think its one of the places that sells a lot of evo's now do servicing.... Xtreme or something like that. Had a servicing cost most services are around the £300 mark every 10k or 12 month I didnt think was too bad one of the servicing costs hit the £600 but that was one very rarely. If we always took our cars to Honda it wouldnt be much cheaper I dont think. The tax is a once a year cost so I never take that into long term costs.

As soon as I normally as about pertol etc on the evo forums the only answer you get is well 'if you have to ask' crap all over again. I just like to know what to expect when buying a car etc.

so any answers would be great on that.
 
With any 4wd 300+BHP car,the big one is fuel.
I 've got a 330BHP scooby now,before that I had the FD2.
The honda is so cheap to run compared to the scoob if you do a lot of miles.
 
but what are the costs like... eg if you drive the car with a mix or normal driving and spirited driving are you going to wipe out £60 of fuel in 100 miles or a more sensible 240ish. The fuel cost are going to be much bigger when running a more powerful car but what are the costs of running a 300ish bhp.

Any example Stu of what you roughly get (miles to tank wise)
 
murrayl":22l6m1kw said:
but what are the costs like... eg if you drive the car with a mix or normal driving and spirited driving are you going to wipe out £60 of fuel in 100 miles or a more sensible 240ish. The fuel cost are going to be much bigger when running a more powerful car but what are the costs of running a 300ish bhp.

Any example Stu of what you roughly get (miles to tank wise)
Click to expand...

I used to get 160 miles from my Evo 6 - a friend of mine has seen 210 miles out of her evo 9 - Anything over 230 miles is rare in a boosted AWD car.
 
murrayl":224180id said:
but what are the costs like... eg if you drive the car with a mix or normal driving and spirited driving are you going to wipe out £60 of fuel in 100 miles or a more sensible 240ish. The fuel cost are going to be much bigger when running a more powerful car but what are the costs of running a 300ish bhp.

Any example Stu of what you roughly get (miles to tank wise)
Click to expand...
260 miles on the motorway if you take it easy /stay off boost or 1/4 of a tank to do the m50 if your in a hurry :shocked:
 
Evo servicing is more frequent than that - oil and AYC diff every 4500, not cheap as you need a particular bit of equipment if memory serves. Unless you get an RS, in which case you won't have the AYC (or whatever it's called in the latest ones)!

Of course you munch tyres more quickly too, never mind the insurance that is usually 50% higher than anything else...
 
I also came from a modified DC5 (KPro, Toda header, Twin-Loop, GruppeM, bored TB, fast road setup, Spoon prog-springs) which I had 7+ years before the FD2. In comparison the stock FD2 felt like it already had a remap compared to the DC5 I came from. This is probably largely down to the better matching of he gear ratios with the engine's torque. Generally, the whole car feels like it was developed in synergy with all it's other parts whereas the DC5 felt a bit more cobbled together. It just takes one test drive to know what a great car it is 'out-of-the-box'. The handling feel is much closer to the DC2 / EK9 feel that was lacking from the DC5. Once you've driven one you can forgive it's lesser than DC5 looks.
 
Thought you'd put the mugen wing back on Dotty. as for fd2 vs evo x, fd2 looks better imo and the x doesnt have the 4500 mile service intervals its 10k i think. Id keep the dc5 but i know you get a new car every other week :-D
 
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