Sullyz_Type_R
New Member
- Messages
- 104
What do you guys rekon of the DC2 over the FD2.
Which one is better?
Lets have an all out DEBATE.
Which one is better?
Lets have an all out DEBATE.
FD2 vs DC2
- Thread starter Sullyz_Type_R
- Start date
DolphiN Tech":3qrln95z said:
Nicely worded 8)
Which is the best Type R is always going to be a lively debate and has been done to death i'm afraid. Starting it over here will only lead to a load of people registering to defend their cars and slag off others so best not go there.
DC2 is well up there though IMHO, still holds it's ground today but different cars for different applications + too many variables
Sullyz_Type_R
New Member
- Messages
- 104
Reviews have said that the FD2 is the next DC2 because of its handling character.
I'm not trying to get at anything, the DC2 is an awesome car, but i honestly think the FD2 is up there with the DC2.
Guys!
What you rekon?
I'm not trying to get at anything, the DC2 is an awesome car, but i honestly think the FD2 is up there with the DC2.
Guys!
What you rekon?
Hey lads!
This sounds like an interesting debate. I own a JDM DC2 in Japan and am seriously buying the FD2 partially cause the missus thinks its more practical over my actual intended buy namely the AP1 for its 4 door configuration. Thus, I have tested it on various occasions and even drove a mate's FD2 on the same touge that I normally take my DC2 on.
I agree that both cars handle very similarly. In fact, trying to compare the DC2 and DC5 or the DC5 and FD2 brings me to the same conclusion that both the DC2 and FD2 are identical in character. How? Let me put it in my own words.
The DC2 (I have a 2000 Rx spec) has a definite tail out stance at the limit while keeping a steady throttle in a corner. Attack a corner with some vigour and the nose hardly pushes wide unless you didn't adjust your speed carefully. The DC2 is one reluctantly understeering FF and its limits are high. Having said that, while precipitating this motion, you always feel that the rear wheels are faithfully where the front wheels are pointing. Such orchestrated behaviour is normally seen in well balanced 4WD sports cars and isn't usual in a FF. They simply aren't supposed to behave like that. In addition, if there is any driving sensation that will immediately make the driver sit up and take notice of his actions on the steering and throttle then Type Rs possess it. The DC2 and EK9 are similar in this respect where the amount of feedback coming through from the road surface to the rack and pinion to the steering wheel to the driver's hands in one continuous line makes it all the more race car like. Its the difference between driving a go kart and a school bus.
Driving the FD2 at speed through the twisties immediately affirmed my predictions. That the new Type R had returned to its old roots after a rather disappointing lack of character or rather out of character as shown by the late DC5 and EP3 JDM or not. Full braking down into the first descending corner in Hakone and the feeling was familiar. The old surefooted response given with just a slight twitch of the steering and the car obeys the drivers inputs seamlessly. The feeling of rearward yaw motion from my posterior telling my the the rear overhang is about to shift on its on weight in line with the front was present as well. But wait, there are some differences. I could have sworn that physically the reaction of the front tyres were the same as the DC2. However, there was a heightened sense of density to the feeling of the steering. Honda had more than 10 years to improve on the most basic component of driving which leads me to believe that the steering mechanism is vastly superior thus far. After all technology progresses. But Honda being tied to its roots of motorsports and engineering excellence above else can't help but make sure that these small often unmentioned components make all the difference between your mate's 400bhp Skyline and your humble NA 'underpowered' Type R.
To make matters worse, The behaviour of the engine and transmission were satisfyingly related. Mechanically different but similar in delivery. Matching the engine revs and gear ratios for each medium speed curve was identical and although the FD2 had the benefit of and extra ratio, it wasn't needed. gears 1-4 on both cars were closely matched. In Japan of course where these machines were intended to be used, it was easy to extract the full potential of using the engine power.
So then what are the differences? Plenty. The FD2 is rather heavy, about 200kg more than the DC2. On one particular tight hairpin I had to grip the FD2 by the horns and yank it round the corner while the DC2 didn't need asking twice like a good steed. Current emission standards means that the FD2 has to wear the E-throttle tie and although this didn't make much of a difference most of the time at anything more than 50% open throttle anything below that felt a tad lethargic. Well I hope that means better returns at the petrol kiosks then. So it isn't as direct as the good old steel cable but it makes up for it with other bits of clever technology and old fashioned hand made tuning.
Right. I've said enough. Personally I hope to keep both cars because having a 2 door and a 4 door car seems like the both worlds. Or even if I really had to sell the DC2 I would have to 'settle' for a family saloon. At least thats what the missus thinks.
This sounds like an interesting debate. I own a JDM DC2 in Japan and am seriously buying the FD2 partially cause the missus thinks its more practical over my actual intended buy namely the AP1 for its 4 door configuration. Thus, I have tested it on various occasions and even drove a mate's FD2 on the same touge that I normally take my DC2 on.
I agree that both cars handle very similarly. In fact, trying to compare the DC2 and DC5 or the DC5 and FD2 brings me to the same conclusion that both the DC2 and FD2 are identical in character. How? Let me put it in my own words.
The DC2 (I have a 2000 Rx spec) has a definite tail out stance at the limit while keeping a steady throttle in a corner. Attack a corner with some vigour and the nose hardly pushes wide unless you didn't adjust your speed carefully. The DC2 is one reluctantly understeering FF and its limits are high. Having said that, while precipitating this motion, you always feel that the rear wheels are faithfully where the front wheels are pointing. Such orchestrated behaviour is normally seen in well balanced 4WD sports cars and isn't usual in a FF. They simply aren't supposed to behave like that. In addition, if there is any driving sensation that will immediately make the driver sit up and take notice of his actions on the steering and throttle then Type Rs possess it. The DC2 and EK9 are similar in this respect where the amount of feedback coming through from the road surface to the rack and pinion to the steering wheel to the driver's hands in one continuous line makes it all the more race car like. Its the difference between driving a go kart and a school bus.
Driving the FD2 at speed through the twisties immediately affirmed my predictions. That the new Type R had returned to its old roots after a rather disappointing lack of character or rather out of character as shown by the late DC5 and EP3 JDM or not. Full braking down into the first descending corner in Hakone and the feeling was familiar. The old surefooted response given with just a slight twitch of the steering and the car obeys the drivers inputs seamlessly. The feeling of rearward yaw motion from my posterior telling my the the rear overhang is about to shift on its on weight in line with the front was present as well. But wait, there are some differences. I could have sworn that physically the reaction of the front tyres were the same as the DC2. However, there was a heightened sense of density to the feeling of the steering. Honda had more than 10 years to improve on the most basic component of driving which leads me to believe that the steering mechanism is vastly superior thus far. After all technology progresses. But Honda being tied to its roots of motorsports and engineering excellence above else can't help but make sure that these small often unmentioned components make all the difference between your mate's 400bhp Skyline and your humble NA 'underpowered' Type R.
To make matters worse, The behaviour of the engine and transmission were satisfyingly related. Mechanically different but similar in delivery. Matching the engine revs and gear ratios for each medium speed curve was identical and although the FD2 had the benefit of and extra ratio, it wasn't needed. gears 1-4 on both cars were closely matched. In Japan of course where these machines were intended to be used, it was easy to extract the full potential of using the engine power.
So then what are the differences? Plenty. The FD2 is rather heavy, about 200kg more than the DC2. On one particular tight hairpin I had to grip the FD2 by the horns and yank it round the corner while the DC2 didn't need asking twice like a good steed. Current emission standards means that the FD2 has to wear the E-throttle tie and although this didn't make much of a difference most of the time at anything more than 50% open throttle anything below that felt a tad lethargic. Well I hope that means better returns at the petrol kiosks then. So it isn't as direct as the good old steel cable but it makes up for it with other bits of clever technology and old fashioned hand made tuning.
Right. I've said enough. Personally I hope to keep both cars because having a 2 door and a 4 door car seems like the both worlds. Or even if I really had to sell the DC2 I would have to 'settle' for a family saloon. At least thats what the missus thinks.
Sullyz_Type_R
New Member
- Messages
- 104
Amazing write up there.
Hello folks, this is my first post. This coming thursday will be my FD2's 1 year birthday. Britishracer, you wrote very well and very accurately. like you, i also live in japan.
before i bought my Type R, i was the proud owner of a '93 DC2 Integra SiVTEC that i bought in '00. in 7 years, i became very familiar with the ins and outs of the car. in the fall of '04 I began the long migration to boost. after installing my turbo parts, i quite often had no problems with cars such as mildly-modded Tourer Vs (i'm american, so my "thing" was traffic signal to traffic signal macho muscle-show). in '06 i was introduced to touge and had a blast. later, my son's daycare bought out another daycare and they moved him to the new daycare location. that was fine by me, because there was a nice little touge spot on the way to the new daycare. by then, my DC2 had been repainted Vivid Blue Pearl--the same color i'd loved seeing on the Fit. my DC2 had no problems with that touge and i looked forward to picking up my son after work everyday. yes, there was a little front wheel slip, but it was manageable.
but due to becoming a father and having a few mechanical problems, i decided my 2 door lovely was overdue to be replaced. imagine my surprise when my wife--who has absolutely no love of racing or anything automotive--agreed on my proposal to buy a brand-spanking new FD2 Type R! I ordered her in May of 07 and after a long, 4 month wait, received her in August of 07. In my favorite Vivid Blue Pearl, no less! my FD2 blows away my turboed DC2 (R.I.P.!) in every respect. it even matches gasoline consumption, NA to NA--at least as far as i'm able to tell from the frequency of refilling at the gas station. my daily touge runs are an absolute joy; i'm in heaven. you are absolutely correct in your explanation about the rear wheels going where the fronts are pointed. with the DC2's slight understeering tendencies (the non-DC2's that is), the slight OVERsteering, positive control of the FD2 is very welcome. As for american-style light-to-light showboating, my Civic had no problems staying ahead of an older, modified GC8 WRX.
The best thing about this car was the price. When I bought it, the yen rate was 119 yen to 1 USD. Priced at Y2,800,000 I paid just over $23,000 for this eye-popper. Compare that price to ~$30,000 folks in the US are paying for a non-Type R Mugen Civic Si! Yes, I'd say I got the better deal.
The worst thing about the car is the A-pillars. They're the size of tree trunks! On fast touge runs, they can be a little frustrating and scary at the same time. I should not have to shift my head to look around an A-pillar. :naughty:
Anyway, thanks for the good review Britishracer. When your car comes in, I hope you are just as happy as I am now after a year of ownership! I hope though that your wife is a little more forgiving of the rough suspension than mine is. (she's actually asked me before if i can somehow make the ride a little softer!)
before i bought my Type R, i was the proud owner of a '93 DC2 Integra SiVTEC that i bought in '00. in 7 years, i became very familiar with the ins and outs of the car. in the fall of '04 I began the long migration to boost. after installing my turbo parts, i quite often had no problems with cars such as mildly-modded Tourer Vs (i'm american, so my "thing" was traffic signal to traffic signal macho muscle-show). in '06 i was introduced to touge and had a blast. later, my son's daycare bought out another daycare and they moved him to the new daycare location. that was fine by me, because there was a nice little touge spot on the way to the new daycare. by then, my DC2 had been repainted Vivid Blue Pearl--the same color i'd loved seeing on the Fit. my DC2 had no problems with that touge and i looked forward to picking up my son after work everyday. yes, there was a little front wheel slip, but it was manageable.
but due to becoming a father and having a few mechanical problems, i decided my 2 door lovely was overdue to be replaced. imagine my surprise when my wife--who has absolutely no love of racing or anything automotive--agreed on my proposal to buy a brand-spanking new FD2 Type R! I ordered her in May of 07 and after a long, 4 month wait, received her in August of 07. In my favorite Vivid Blue Pearl, no less! my FD2 blows away my turboed DC2 (R.I.P.!) in every respect. it even matches gasoline consumption, NA to NA--at least as far as i'm able to tell from the frequency of refilling at the gas station. my daily touge runs are an absolute joy; i'm in heaven. you are absolutely correct in your explanation about the rear wheels going where the fronts are pointed. with the DC2's slight understeering tendencies (the non-DC2's that is), the slight OVERsteering, positive control of the FD2 is very welcome. As for american-style light-to-light showboating, my Civic had no problems staying ahead of an older, modified GC8 WRX.
The best thing about this car was the price. When I bought it, the yen rate was 119 yen to 1 USD. Priced at Y2,800,000 I paid just over $23,000 for this eye-popper. Compare that price to ~$30,000 folks in the US are paying for a non-Type R Mugen Civic Si! Yes, I'd say I got the better deal.
The worst thing about the car is the A-pillars. They're the size of tree trunks! On fast touge runs, they can be a little frustrating and scary at the same time. I should not have to shift my head to look around an A-pillar. :naughty:
Anyway, thanks for the good review Britishracer. When your car comes in, I hope you are just as happy as I am now after a year of ownership! I hope though that your wife is a little more forgiving of the rough suspension than mine is. (she's actually asked me before if i can somehow make the ride a little softer!)
Mate!
Didn't know you lived in Japan and do runs on the touge too! I actually buggered off from this forum for a while playing around with modding the DC2. Bought a EK9 last year and had both cars for 6 months before selling the DC2. I decided that the EK9 was just all round a better car plus the fact that I have always liked the EK9 better.
So now the story is I am determined to get a FD2 in addition to my EK9 (which means I will have 2 CTRs but both quite different)...Looking at 2nd half of the year as I want to get it new.
Anyway..will send you a PM and hopefully we can meet up.
CHEERS!
Didn't know you lived in Japan and do runs on the touge too! I actually buggered off from this forum for a while playing around with modding the DC2. Bought a EK9 last year and had both cars for 6 months before selling the DC2. I decided that the EK9 was just all round a better car plus the fact that I have always liked the EK9 better.
So now the story is I am determined to get a FD2 in addition to my EK9 (which means I will have 2 CTRs but both quite different)...Looking at 2nd half of the year as I want to get it new.
Anyway..will send you a PM and hopefully we can meet up.
CHEERS!